1 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:09,500 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:26,580 --> 00:00:23,040 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:29,370 --> 00:00:26,590 show number 89 for the second of July 4 00:00:32,549 --> 00:00:29,380 2010 Richard Saunders here with you in 5 00:00:37,530 --> 00:00:32,559 Sydney Australia just about to start 6 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:37,540 packing for our trip to Las Vegas for 7 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:40,330 tau made the amazing meeting aid looking 8 00:00:44,369 --> 00:00:41,980 forward to that leaving in a couple of 9 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:44,379 days on this week's show we have an 10 00:00:49,470 --> 00:00:46,449 interview conducted by our very own 11 00:00:52,770 --> 00:00:49,480 Kylie Sturgis with Pamela gay Pamela gay 12 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:52,780 the famous astronomer a delightful lady 13 00:00:58,260 --> 00:00:55,210 and a very interesting interview and 14 00:01:00,990 --> 00:00:58,270 that's followed by a report from a very 15 00:01:02,970 --> 00:01:01,000 good friend of ours Delroy from the 16 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:02,980 Granite State skeptics there in New 17 00:01:10,350 --> 00:01:07,390 Hampshire think free or die is their 18 00:01:12,270 --> 00:01:10,360 motto about magic bracelets and 19 00:01:13,529 --> 00:01:12,280 necklaces you know the sort of things 20 00:01:17,270 --> 00:01:13,539 that when you put them on they give you 21 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:17,280 more strength power well-being wellness 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:19,990 bring back the zest in your life feel 23 00:01:24,510 --> 00:01:22,090 better sleep better cure your ingrown 24 00:01:26,580 --> 00:01:24,520 toenails that whatever they suggest 25 00:01:28,889 --> 00:01:26,590 these things do and some of you may know 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:28,899 that I'm certainly very interested in 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:32,170 this topic magical power and balance 28 00:01:38,699 --> 00:01:35,770 devices and around off the show we have 29 00:01:40,889 --> 00:01:38,709 a clip from Radio to UE here in Sydney 30 00:01:44,639 --> 00:01:40,899 where I was interviewed by George and 31 00:01:48,389 --> 00:01:44,649 Paul couple of our nice DJ's year or so 32 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:48,399 ago so a little bit of a shortened show 33 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:49,750 this week because we're all so busy 34 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:51,910 packing and doing all sorts of things to 35 00:01:56,790 --> 00:01:54,000 get ready for the amazing meeting and 36 00:01:58,919 --> 00:01:56,800 next week I was thinking about putting 37 00:02:00,510 --> 00:01:58,929 up a special episode of an old interview 38 00:02:03,449 --> 00:02:00,520 or something interesting but no I'm 39 00:02:06,270 --> 00:02:03,459 going to record some stuff live at Las 40 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:06,280 Vegas and whack it up for you looking 41 00:02:20,780 --> 00:02:08,380 forward to that enough enough enough 42 00:02:28,170 --> 00:02:24,900 I'm Kylie Sturgis and I'm talking to dr. 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:28,180 Pamela gay dr. gay is an astronomer a 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:31,210 writer and a podcaster who uses new 45 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:33,370 media to engage people in science and 46 00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:36,910 technology you can find her blog at star 47 00:02:41,730 --> 00:02:39,640 Strider calm and today she talks to us 48 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:41,740 about the many projects that she's 49 00:02:49,890 --> 00:02:47,260 involved in thank you very much for 50 00:02:52,590 --> 00:02:49,900 joining me dr. Pamela gay well it's my 51 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:52,600 pleasure to be here thanks for coming to 52 00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:54,970 me so late in your night and so early in 53 00:02:59,190 --> 00:02:57,040 my morning welcome to good old 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:02:59,200 international skyping conference calls 55 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:01,570 it's great isn't it I I don't think I 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:04,090 could do my job if skype didn't exist I 57 00:03:08,340 --> 00:03:06,010 know what you mean speaking of 58 00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:08,350 everything that you do you have an 59 00:03:15,090 --> 00:03:10,900 incredibly busy schedule ahead with 60 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:15,100 convergence tam 8 luna forums the 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:18,240 Astronomical Society of the Pacific 2010 62 00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:20,530 what are some of the presentations that 63 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:22,600 people can look forward to well I think 64 00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:24,760 the overall theme that I'm going for is 65 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:26,740 how everyday people can be part of 66 00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:29,590 science I'm part I'm part of a project 67 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:32,560 called Zooniverse we do Galaxy Zoo and 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:34,930 Moon zoo and solar storm watch and 69 00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:38,410 several other projects that allow anyone 70 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:41,470 even kids to get involved in looking at 71 00:03:47,630 --> 00:03:44,200 NASA image data from satellite missions 72 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:47,640 and discovering something wonderful and 73 00:03:54,530 --> 00:03:51,010 so at tam 8 i'm going to be talking 74 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:54,540 about how as scientists we can invite 75 00:03:59,460 --> 00:03:57,250 the people around us to be part of the 76 00:04:02,720 --> 00:03:59,470 scientific process it's it's not just 77 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:02,730 for lab coats anymore and at the other 78 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:05,380 sites i'll be presenting our research 79 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:07,510 showing some of our results at 80 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:10,540 convergence talking about how we work to 81 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:13,150 educate people the lunar forums and at 82 00:04:17,820 --> 00:04:15,310 the Astronomical Society at the Pacific 83 00:04:19,349 --> 00:04:17,830 I'm going to be talking about well just 84 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:19,359 how is it that people are interacting 85 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:23,500 with our data so the why what and how 86 00:04:26,730 --> 00:04:24,910 it's happening is going to be getting 87 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:26,740 told across all these different meetings 88 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:29,680 it sounds like very optimistic news am I 89 00:04:34,490 --> 00:04:30,270 want 90 00:04:37,220 --> 00:04:34,500 well it's not just optimistic it's we 91 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:37,230 have inspiring results it's good to be 92 00:04:44,030 --> 00:04:39,840 optimistic but it's better to inspire we 93 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:44,040 we have cases of people discovering the 94 00:04:49,190 --> 00:04:46,170 light echo from a quasar of going 95 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:49,200 through and finding stars moving quickly 96 00:04:53,300 --> 00:04:51,570 across the sky and orbital paths that 97 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:53,310 are very different from our own we have 98 00:04:58,760 --> 00:04:55,610 people who are choosing to try and 99 00:05:01,730 --> 00:04:58,770 discover on their own why some galaxies 100 00:05:04,970 --> 00:05:01,740 look like small green peas and all of 101 00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:04,980 these wonderful discoveries are being 102 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:07,380 made by people working at home on their 103 00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:10,340 laptops using social media to 104 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:13,440 collaborate together and then coming to 105 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:16,050 the pH DS for help rather than for 106 00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:18,060 direction and that's wonderful that is 107 00:05:22,130 --> 00:05:19,590 fantastic so that's definitely something 108 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:22,140 to put into the Diaries to catch up with 109 00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:24,750 you on its if I can't wait to share the 110 00:05:29,210 --> 00:05:27,120 results yay now one of the other 111 00:05:31,070 --> 00:05:29,220 projects that I've seen mentioned on 112 00:05:34,190 --> 00:05:31,080 your site is and I hope I'm saying this 113 00:05:37,940 --> 00:05:34,200 correctly the verb or workish webcomic 114 00:05:42,670 --> 00:05:37,950 or whether it's it's it's Dutch so it's 115 00:05:46,790 --> 00:05:42,680 were verb oh ok green yeah so back in 116 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:46,800 August of 2007 a Dutch school teacher 117 00:05:52,370 --> 00:05:49,650 having van arkel was looking through 118 00:05:54,410 --> 00:05:52,380 galaxies on the Galaxy Zoo website 119 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:54,420 classifying them by what they look like 120 00:05:58,820 --> 00:05:56,010 their shape do they look like the letter 121 00:06:01,580 --> 00:05:58,830 S the letter Z are they big cotton balls 122 00:06:04,010 --> 00:06:01,590 of gas and one of the galaxies that she 123 00:06:06,530 --> 00:06:04,020 was classifying directly beneath it was 124 00:06:09,950 --> 00:06:06,540 what in that particular image was this 125 00:06:12,550 --> 00:06:09,960 big blue blob of gas um the particular 126 00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:12,560 telescope that was being used makes 127 00:06:20,810 --> 00:06:16,830 oxygen lines look blue instead of green 128 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:20,820 and it strangely actually looks like the 129 00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:22,770 swamp thing or like a blue Kermit the 130 00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:26,670 Frog dancing and like any curious human 131 00:06:30,590 --> 00:06:28,800 being she wanted to know what it was so 132 00:06:33,650 --> 00:06:30,600 she went to the Galaxy Zoo forums and 133 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:33,660 she wrote Hanny's for verb she's thought 134 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:36,360 she used the Dutch word for thing for 135 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:39,900 stuff um and then she asked the question 136 00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:43,710 what is this stuff below the galaxy and 137 00:06:47,630 --> 00:06:45,300 there's a lot of head-scratching and 138 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:47,640 then there's the race for telescope time 139 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:50,690 and we've been studying this object 140 00:06:55,730 --> 00:06:53,610 scientists all around the world across 141 00:06:57,380 --> 00:06:55,740 many wavelengths using variety of 142 00:07:00,110 --> 00:06:57,390 telescopes all the way down to Hubble 143 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:00,120 Space Telescope essentially visiting the 144 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:01,890 Oracles of knowledge is how we're going 145 00:07:07,130 --> 00:07:04,650 to tell it in the webcomic to try and 146 00:07:09,380 --> 00:07:07,140 get understanding of what this distant 147 00:07:11,090 --> 00:07:09,390 object actually is and I'm not going to 148 00:07:13,010 --> 00:07:11,100 reveal the punchline yet you're going to 149 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:13,020 have to show up at DragonCon or 150 00:07:18,170 --> 00:07:15,930 downloaded after Labor Day weekend to 151 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:18,180 find out the outcome but it's been an 152 00:07:23,930 --> 00:07:21,270 amazing adventure and it's always cool 153 00:07:25,460 --> 00:07:23,940 when your galactic objects decide to 154 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:25,470 look like comic book characters 155 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:27,390 completely on their own not only have 156 00:07:30,890 --> 00:07:28,800 people got that to look forward to 157 00:07:33,710 --> 00:07:30,900 you're just not stopping you've got a 158 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:33,720 forthcoming 200th episode of astronomy 159 00:07:38,270 --> 00:07:36,300 cast and a new east or what are some 160 00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:38,280 have you got any plans in the works for 161 00:07:43,430 --> 00:07:40,740 that already well every time we hit one 162 00:07:44,870 --> 00:07:43,440 of these big numbers Fraser and I think 163 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:44,880 we're gonna do a special episode and I 164 00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:46,530 think this time we're actually going to 165 00:07:54,260 --> 00:07:49,740 succeed yeah it's it's amazing to look 166 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:54,270 back since we launched in 2006 and see 167 00:07:59,180 --> 00:07:55,530 all the science that has radically 168 00:08:02,630 --> 00:07:59,190 changed and I think in our 200th episode 169 00:08:05,690 --> 00:08:02,640 we're going to do some sort of a here's 170 00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:05,700 a science story we told in the past and 171 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:08,580 here's what we believe today and take 172 00:08:14,030 --> 00:08:11,310 you on the newest leg of the facts based 173 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:14,040 journey that I show is going on the east 174 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:18,030 or is a way for us to make it easier for 175 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:19,650 us to do the cool things we want to do 176 00:08:25,210 --> 00:08:22,050 we keep getting audience requests can 177 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:25,220 you come talk at our event can you 178 00:08:30,140 --> 00:08:27,630 produce the following education 179 00:08:32,180 --> 00:08:30,150 materials can you help us learn better 180 00:08:35,930 --> 00:08:32,190 and to do all of these things it takes 181 00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:35,940 money and right now astronomy cast it's 182 00:08:41,030 --> 00:08:37,860 a labor of love we pay our audio 183 00:08:44,270 --> 00:08:41,040 engineer we pay a woman to help us 184 00:08:46,810 --> 00:08:44,280 handle all the letters all of the bills 185 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:46,820 in all of the day-to-day paperwork but 186 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:50,310 Fraser and I do this for free and often 187 00:08:56,079 --> 00:08:53,520 we pick up our own airfare wow the 188 00:08:59,170 --> 00:08:56,089 effects stillness yeah 189 00:09:02,379 --> 00:08:59,180 so having an eStore means you can more 190 00:09:04,780 --> 00:09:02,389 effectively inflict our audio on people 191 00:09:06,999 --> 00:09:04,790 who have cd drives and we can hopefully 192 00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:07,009 more effectively educate one of the 193 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:08,720 other projects that you're involved in 194 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:11,180 and that I've taken part in and members 195 00:09:15,759 --> 00:09:12,889 of a skeptic zone of taken part in is 196 00:09:19,210 --> 00:09:15,769 the 365 days of astronomy which has 197 00:09:21,189 --> 00:09:19,220 continued on into 2010 I was there when 198 00:09:24,189 --> 00:09:21,199 you got the past sec podcasting award in 199 00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:24,199 2009 which was wonderful George Rob 200 00:09:29,530 --> 00:09:26,240 running around waving it in the middle 201 00:09:31,090 --> 00:09:29,540 of the meeting so in the middle of a 202 00:09:33,939 --> 00:09:31,100 live show that we had for the skeptic 203 00:09:37,090 --> 00:09:33,949 zone so how does it how is it gone since 204 00:09:39,489 --> 00:09:37,100 that time oh it's been doing amazingly 205 00:09:41,769 --> 00:09:39,499 well although I i have to say we need 206 00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:41,779 audio so if any of your listeners out 207 00:09:46,509 --> 00:09:43,670 there want to be a part of the show we 208 00:09:49,660 --> 00:09:46,519 we could use your involvement um it's 209 00:09:52,989 --> 00:09:49,670 it's been amazing to see how people from 210 00:09:55,989 --> 00:09:52,999 all around the world have found the time 211 00:09:58,569 --> 00:09:55,999 to donate ten minutes of their story ten 212 00:10:01,049 --> 00:09:58,579 minutes of their love of astronomy of 213 00:10:04,119 --> 00:10:01,059 talking to their kids about Pluto of 214 00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:04,129 telling us about what caused them 215 00:10:10,650 --> 00:10:07,040 growing up in areas where science isn't 216 00:10:13,239 --> 00:10:10,660 really taught to go into science and 217 00:10:15,999 --> 00:10:13,249 we're catching the latest research 218 00:10:18,489 --> 00:10:16,009 results coming out of the observatories 219 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:18,499 and we're finding about out about the 220 00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:24,529 water on the moon and there is so much 221 00:10:30,429 --> 00:10:26,720 depth to what you can say in astronomy 222 00:10:32,650 --> 00:10:30,439 everything from your personal stories to 223 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:32,660 the stories of the greatest discoveries 224 00:10:40,419 --> 00:10:36,740 and I think 365 days by being the 225 00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:40,429 community's voice allows one place where 226 00:10:44,949 --> 00:10:42,889 all of these different entry points in 227 00:10:47,530 --> 00:10:44,959 astronomy can be expressed together and 228 00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:47,540 I just love listening to the variety of 229 00:10:52,059 --> 00:10:50,360 things people come up with and thank you 230 00:10:54,579 --> 00:10:52,069 for your bringing your own voice to it 231 00:10:56,980 --> 00:10:54,589 and I hope that more of your listeners 232 00:10:59,739 --> 00:10:56,990 will take the time to think hey I love 233 00:11:02,350 --> 00:10:59,749 astronomy I have a microphone maybe I 234 00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:02,360 should submit my 10 minutes of audio it 235 00:11:06,819 --> 00:11:04,399 is really that straightforward and I 236 00:11:08,769 --> 00:11:06,829 know from the community that is out 237 00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:08,779 there there's more than enough people 238 00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:09,440 who will 239 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:11,180 to help out if you have an idea and 240 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:13,130 they'll give you suggestions and and so 241 00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,530 I've don't try this try that and and 242 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:17,600 just pull it together it makes merely 243 00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:19,910 interesting shows yeah our lead producer 244 00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:22,880 nancy atkinson is always there to help 245 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:27,200 and she is a walking encyclopedia of our 246 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:29,450 field and one of the most amazing people 247 00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:31,670 i could ever work with and this show 248 00:11:37,410 --> 00:11:33,950 wouldn't be possible without her out 249 00:11:40,090 --> 00:11:37,420 there as in in some ways the pod mom 250 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:40,100 they think everything happened so what's 251 00:11:44,380 --> 00:11:42,290 plan for the rest of 2010 particularly 252 00:11:46,930 --> 00:11:44,390 after reading about issues facing 253 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:46,940 education in the USA is is there any way 254 00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:50,120 people can help well yeah it's a hearing 255 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:53,360 that it's a huge problem and it's it's 256 00:11:56,830 --> 00:11:54,950 not just the United States these 257 00:11:58,960 --> 00:11:56,840 problems are affecting different nations 258 00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,970 in different ways and Italy they're 259 00:12:04,510 --> 00:12:00,320 shutting down some of their astronomical 260 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:04,520 institutions in England they've cut 25 261 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:07,550 percent of the postdoc and graduate 262 00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:09,890 positions in astronomy but the funding 263 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:12,470 from the National councils here in the 264 00:12:16,990 --> 00:12:14,710 United States our research dollars 265 00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:17,000 according to an email I got the other 266 00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:19,790 day are currently on hold waiting for 267 00:12:23,860 --> 00:12:22,070 the Congress to decide how much money 268 00:12:28,510 --> 00:12:23,870 will be allocated in the new financial 269 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:28,520 year and state to state well the states 270 00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:31,810 are going bankrupt and Illinois were 271 00:12:37,150 --> 00:12:34,460 hundreds of millions of dollars behind 272 00:12:41,230 --> 00:12:37,160 and the money going out to universities 273 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:41,240 to schools and without money you can't 274 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:43,610 pay your teachers and the solutions that 275 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:45,110 are being come up with our brutal 276 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:46,970 increase class sizes increase 277 00:12:52,810 --> 00:12:50,390 enrollments cut down on materials costs 278 00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:52,820 cut down on the opportunities you 279 00:12:58,270 --> 00:12:54,980 provide your professors so they can go 280 00:13:01,000 --> 00:12:58,280 out and collaborate just having your 281 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:01,010 travel funding zeroed doesn't seem like 282 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:04,430 that Harsha thing but if you're 283 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:06,410 collaborating across the globe skype is 284 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:07,910 nice but sometimes you want to see 285 00:13:14,110 --> 00:13:11,270 someone face to face the the best things 286 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:14,120 that people can do our go to your 287 00:13:18,180 --> 00:13:16,010 schools and don't demand more science 288 00:13:21,820 --> 00:13:18,190 education go to your schools and say I 289 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:21,830 want to help how can I help you get more 290 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:23,510 science education 291 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:26,530 be the person who goes out and finds the 292 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:29,690 PhD scientist who might be working as a 293 00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:32,180 computer scientist and has the spare 294 00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:35,360 time to go in and spend a couple 295 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:38,540 afternoons a week teaching science in a 296 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:41,210 school in an after-school program go out 297 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:43,910 find the companies locally that can 298 00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:46,250 donate the microscopes that can't be 299 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:48,800 replaced from school budgets be the 300 00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,810 facilitator that makes the change we 301 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:53,360 need in these schools and anyone in the 302 00:13:57,340 --> 00:13:55,490 world should be able to go to their 303 00:13:59,290 --> 00:13:57,350 local school system and find out how to 304 00:14:01,600 --> 00:13:59,300 get involved in after-school programs 305 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,610 this is really the best way you can make 306 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:04,160 a difference in the kid's life yeah I've 307 00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:05,930 just recently joined a school at the 308 00:14:10,930 --> 00:14:07,070 beginning of this year they have a 309 00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:10,940 astronomy club and so of course the one 310 00:14:16,630 --> 00:14:12,500 fellow on the entire campus who's got 311 00:14:18,430 --> 00:14:16,640 himself a lovely star trek tie and and I 312 00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:18,440 said you realize that I'm a podcaster 313 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:20,540 and I'm going to be chasing you down in 314 00:14:25,930 --> 00:14:22,250 order to interview you and the students 315 00:14:28,090 --> 00:14:25,940 for the 365 days and he said the huh the 316 00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:28,100 podcast what where did that kind of you 317 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:31,430 you just wait you just wait mr. gonna 318 00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:34,310 give so so that's that's been my big 319 00:14:39,550 --> 00:14:36,680 goal for for 2010 and certainly to get 320 00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:39,560 out another episode for 365 so hopefully 321 00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:41,540 that will that but but absolutely 322 00:14:50,170 --> 00:14:48,640 dr. Pamela gay will be at many 323 00:14:53,890 --> 00:14:50,180 forthcoming conferences including 324 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:53,900 teammate and the galaxy sue site is at 325 00:15:07,420 --> 00:14:57,050 Galaxy Zoo dot org where you can help 326 00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:07,430 astronomers explore the universe this is 327 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:09,350 desirae shell hosted skeptically 328 00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:11,570 speaking check out our website at 329 00:15:17,830 --> 00:15:13,940 skeptically speaking calm and listen to 330 00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:17,840 us live on see jsr 88.5 FM in Edmonton 331 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:21,590 Alberta Canada I now return you to the 332 00:15:32,530 --> 00:15:30,890 skeptic zone everywhere I look there are 333 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:32,540 increased amounts of bracelets and 334 00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:33,890 necklaces for sale that promise 335 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:35,840 increased performance better health and 336 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:38,090 increase strength I have noticed that 337 00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:40,130 more and more in sports stores vitamin 338 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:43,000 stores infomercials and ads and now 339 00:15:47,770 --> 00:15:46,130 sparkpeople.com is showing these ads for 340 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:47,780 these types of bracelets and necklaces 341 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:50,330 and I understand that ads pay for the 342 00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:53,450 site so we may use it for free and while 343 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:55,430 spark people may choose to take their 344 00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,930 money wherever they can get it as 345 00:16:01,960 --> 00:15:59,120 consumers should be more cautious with 346 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:01,970 our money with our society seemingly 347 00:16:06,190 --> 00:16:04,310 desperate need for science understanding 348 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:06,200 these bracelets and necklaces drive the 349 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:08,810 point home even more what is a magic 350 00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:11,720 bracelet or necklace it varies in 351 00:16:15,730 --> 00:16:13,820 development but the usual claim is ions 352 00:16:18,430 --> 00:16:15,740 in the bracelet or some electromagnetic 353 00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:18,440 energy from ions in the bracelet claim 354 00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:21,320 to balance your body affect the ions in 355 00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,780 your body that is out of balance thus 356 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:26,000 calming the inflammation and pain you 357 00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:28,250 are experiencing the problem with this 358 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:30,260 claim is a flaw and understanding of 359 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:32,930 ions ions can only be formed when an 360 00:16:38,170 --> 00:16:34,910 ionic compound is dissolved in a solvent 361 00:16:41,740 --> 00:16:38,180 creating a solution they cannot maintain 362 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:41,750 eye on status in a solid the positive 363 00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:43,850 and negative ions attract each other to 364 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:47,720 form strong bonds creating a solid ionic 365 00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,290 compounds are solid when ions bond 366 00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:53,120 together there is no longer any outward 367 00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:55,460 effect as the ions need for electrons 368 00:16:59,260 --> 00:16:58,010 has been satisfied now your body has 369 00:17:01,690 --> 00:16:59,270 solutions running 370 00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,700 through it and yes it has ions in it 371 00:17:05,770 --> 00:17:03,920 these are called electrolytes the body 372 00:17:08,410 --> 00:17:05,780 does not allow for an imbalance of 373 00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:08,420 positive ions over negative ions should 374 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:09,950 there be an imbalance it would be that 375 00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:13,130 you do not have enough or you have too 376 00:17:18,610 --> 00:17:16,070 many electrolytes in your body the most 377 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:18,620 likely cause of this electrolyte change 378 00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:21,290 is your activity level or illness quote 379 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:23,000 electrolytes are minerals in your body 380 00:17:27,870 --> 00:17:25,520 that have electric charge they hire in 381 00:17:29,710 --> 00:17:27,880 your blood urine and body fluids 382 00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,720 maintaining the right balance of 383 00:17:33,730 --> 00:17:31,280 electrolytes helps your body's blood 384 00:17:36,190 --> 00:17:33,740 chemistry muscle action and other 385 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:36,200 processes sodium calcium potassium 386 00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:38,930 chlorine phosphate and magnesium are all 387 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:41,720 electrolytes you get them from the foods 388 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:44,330 you eat and the fluids you drink levels 389 00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:46,130 of electrolytes in your body can become 390 00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:48,920 too low or too high that can happen when 391 00:17:54,130 --> 00:17:51,400 the amount of water in your body changes 392 00:17:56,850 --> 00:17:54,140 causes include some medicines vomiting 393 00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:56,860 diarrhea sweating or kidney problems 394 00:18:02,020 --> 00:17:59,360 problems most often occur with levels of 395 00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:02,030 sodium potassium or calcium that quote 396 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:03,920 was from the US National Library of 397 00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:06,410 Medicine there is not a single device 398 00:18:11,140 --> 00:18:08,060 out there that is going to fix this 399 00:18:13,930 --> 00:18:11,150 problem what is a really good fix your 400 00:18:17,050 --> 00:18:13,940 fluid intake just plain clean water 401 00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:17,060 drink more or less of it maybe a sports 402 00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:18,590 drink depending on your doctor's 403 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:21,080 diagnosis if necessary and you will feel 404 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,450 better you will have better endurance 405 00:18:29,530 --> 00:18:25,520 speed and muscle performance and there 406 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:29,540 is no magic involved oh but it works for 407 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:33,530 me does it really yes the pain goes away 408 00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:36,640 within a few minutes after I put it on 409 00:18:41,140 --> 00:18:39,140 what is the common thread that makes 410 00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:41,150 these situations tricky and believable 411 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:44,750 the answer you you cannot do a study 412 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:47,510 with only you involved too many ways for 413 00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:49,370 your mind to play tricks with you not 414 00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:51,740 even knowing it if your pain is the 415 00:18:55,810 --> 00:18:53,960 result of a minor problem chances are it 416 00:18:57,940 --> 00:18:55,820 would have gone away without the item if 417 00:19:00,420 --> 00:18:57,950 you're paying keeps falling persisting 418 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:00,430 chances are it's not a minor problem and 419 00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:04,050 will require you to see your doctor 420 00:19:09,230 --> 00:19:06,780 some things to consider what were you 421 00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:09,240 doing at the time are you distracted at 422 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:11,700 any point are you favoring that area or 423 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,970 the placebo effect then minor aches and 424 00:19:19,790 --> 00:19:17,760 pains will go away within minutes when 425 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:19,800 you are distracted or become into what 426 00:19:25,460 --> 00:19:22,590 you are doing aches and pains tend to go 427 00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:25,470 away if you are favoring the afflicted 428 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:27,390 area then the pains have a tendency to 429 00:19:32,090 --> 00:19:29,970 go away sometimes we do not even realize 430 00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:32,100 at the time we are favoring the limb 431 00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:34,020 when we are doing various activities and 432 00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:36,390 another factor to consider is the 433 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:40,260 placebo effect quote the placebo effect 434 00:19:44,780 --> 00:19:42,690 is immeasurable observable or felt 435 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:44,790 improvement in health or behavior not 436 00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,010 attributable to a medication or invasive 437 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:49,760 treatment that has been administered a 438 00:19:55,580 --> 00:19:52,530 placebo which is Latin for I shall 439 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:55,590 please is a pharmacologically inert 440 00:20:00,200 --> 00:19:57,810 substance such as saline solution or 441 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:00,210 starch tablet that produces an effect 442 00:20:05,030 --> 00:20:02,450 similar to what would be expected of 443 00:20:07,820 --> 00:20:05,040 pharmacologically active substances such 444 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:07,830 as an antibiotic that quote was from the 445 00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:10,650 skeptics dictionary this is a powerful 446 00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:13,500 effect on the mind and body you want the 447 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:15,720 pain to go away you inadvertently look 448 00:20:19,550 --> 00:20:17,370 to things to ease that pain it's 449 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:19,560 understandable but it can also lead to 450 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:22,530 the mind being easily fooled something 451 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:25,050 else to consider if these items actually 452 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:27,690 worked then why do companies that make 453 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:31,290 them get shut down or suit why do they 454 00:20:37,010 --> 00:20:33,690 change their healing claims to fit 455 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:37,020 within the law quote in September of 456 00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,330 2006 the Chicago Court sided with the 457 00:20:45,170 --> 00:20:42,000 FTC and ordered cutie park and his 458 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:45,180 companies to turn over 22.5 million in 459 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:48,690 net profits and provide up to sixty 4.5 460 00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:51,690 million more in refunds to consumers who 461 00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:54,030 had bought the bracelets during the 462 00:21:00,050 --> 00:20:56,310 trial Park testified that he could not 463 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:00,060 define the term ionization but picked it 464 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:02,010 because it was simple and easy to 465 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:04,770 remember the court concluded that his 466 00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:06,570 testimony on ionization was 467 00:21:14,210 --> 00:21:09,390 contradictory and full of observation 468 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:14,220 and that he is a clever marketer but a 469 00:21:18,730 --> 00:21:15,650 poor witness 470 00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:18,740 Park also acknowledged that cutie had at 471 00:21:23,710 --> 00:21:21,440 least a 25-percent refund rate from 472 00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:23,720 dissatisfied customers that's more than 473 00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:26,660 a hundred thousand people that quote was 474 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:30,950 from quack watch another quote q ray is 475 00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:33,110 a crescent of metal capped with a pair 476 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:35,630 of metal beads in the past it is 477 00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:38,450 marketed as a pain relief device now it 478 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:40,430 is being marketed as a way to achieve 479 00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:43,150 performance balance and vitality and 480 00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:45,740 also as something that will balance the 481 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:48,230 negative and positive energy forces in 482 00:21:53,170 --> 00:21:50,960 your body all of this apparently with 483 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:53,180 the work of ionization which is a five 484 00:21:59,890 --> 00:21:56,090 dollar word for electric charge that 485 00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,900 quote was from cbc marketplace if it was 486 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:02,240 a true medical cure wouldn't a medical 487 00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:04,130 community embrace these bracelets and 488 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:06,860 necklaces the Hippocratic oath would 489 00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:08,570 surely require them to push these 490 00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:11,660 medical miracles the facts are no matter 491 00:22:17,410 --> 00:22:13,940 what the brand or scientific claim is 492 00:22:20,050 --> 00:22:17,420 the result is the same it does not work 493 00:22:24,490 --> 00:22:20,060 the bottom line of these products they 494 00:22:26,530 --> 00:22:24,500 are gimmicks and they are expensive how 495 00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:26,540 can I help myself not to get sucked into 496 00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:28,670 these gimmicks watch out for the 497 00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:31,220 following red flags scientifically 498 00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:35,150 proven scientific studies show US patent 499 00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:38,150 pending testimonials doctors and 500 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:40,520 scientists supporting the claim physical 501 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:43,850 tests shown ie person not wearing magic 502 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:46,010 item can support himself against the 503 00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:49,250 force same person wearing the magic item 504 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:51,080 now can support themselves against the 505 00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,710 same force if these claims are being 506 00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,960 made then is really something to raise 507 00:23:01,600 --> 00:22:58,880 your eyebrows and question what is going 508 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:01,610 on the old cliche still holds true here 509 00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:04,870 if it sounds too good to be true 510 00:23:11,610 --> 00:23:09,230 miracles do not exist what is needed in 511 00:23:14,410 --> 00:23:11,620 cases like these is critical thinking if 512 00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:14,420 the information is good and the data is 513 00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,840 collected properly and is good then why 514 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:19,520 the need to fill the commercial with 515 00:23:24,430 --> 00:23:21,670 gimmicks question the claims being made 516 00:23:26,590 --> 00:23:24,440 question the results being shown if you 517 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:26,600 cannot afford to go to the doctor to fix 518 00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:28,760 your ailment then you really can't 519 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:29,180 afford 520 00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:31,130 throw your money away on a bracelet or 521 00:23:50,350 --> 00:23:48,430 astronomy cast takes a fact space 522 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:50,360 journey through the cosmos as it offers 523 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:52,250 listeners weekly discussions on 524 00:23:57,790 --> 00:23:54,950 astronomical topics ranging from planets 525 00:24:00,130 --> 00:23:57,800 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 526 00:24:01,150 --> 00:24:00,140 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela 527 00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:01,160 gave southern illinois university 528 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:03,830 edwardsville this show brings the 529 00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:05,690 questions of an avid astronomy lover 530 00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:08,150 directly to an astronomer together 531 00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:10,220 Fraser and I explore what is known and 532 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:11,780 being discovered about the universe 533 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:14,540 around us join us each week as we take a 534 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:16,610 fax space journey through the cosmos at 535 00:24:29,650 --> 00:24:28,010 astronomy cast calm it's ten to nine 536 00:24:31,540 --> 00:24:29,660 with georgia pawn to ue now being a 537 00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:31,550 skeptic has a long and honorable history 538 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:33,470 there was a time when most people 539 00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:35,990 thought the earth was flat mm-hmm few 540 00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:37,820 people still think that like there was a 541 00:24:41,650 --> 00:24:39,590 time when it was thought that the Sun 542 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:41,660 revolved around the earth and there are 543 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:42,890 people who still think that as well an 544 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:45,050 invader doesn't even today I knew you'd 545 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,210 say that even today we talk about the 546 00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:49,760 Sun going down when in fact it's the 547 00:24:52,930 --> 00:24:51,590 earth going around isn't it really i'm 548 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:52,940 in the Sun ain't going down the sun's 549 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:55,130 going around we're going around then 550 00:24:58,870 --> 00:24:56,570 there are the skeptics who don't believe 551 00:25:00,700 --> 00:24:58,880 in water divining well I don't blame 552 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:00,710 them although we had a bloke in our 553 00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:01,940 backyard when I was a kid and he 554 00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,200 reckoned that there was a there was a 555 00:25:08,170 --> 00:25:05,120 river under there somewhere I saw a long 556 00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:08,180 a TV show about it and believe me they 557 00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,590 don't you and that was done by the 558 00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:11,600 skeptic something that new strategy of 559 00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:13,880 skipped and then the skeptics who want 560 00:25:18,010 --> 00:25:16,640 proof before they believe in ghosts fair 561 00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:18,020 enough for natural I'm going to ask him 562 00:25:21,310 --> 00:25:19,520 about global warming in the second deck 563 00:25:23,740 --> 00:25:21,320 um and this morning we've got the head 564 00:25:25,210 --> 00:25:23,750 skeptic Richard Saunders former 565 00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:25,220 president of the Australian skeptics 566 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:26,840 incorporated member of the mystery 567 00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:28,970 investigators and if you have any 568 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:30,260 questions for Richard you welcome to 569 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:31,730 give us a call while we're chatting are 570 00:25:36,820 --> 00:25:34,370 13 13 32 I'm sorry we don't have any 571 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:36,830 eerie music good morning Richard you 572 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:38,450 mean the Sun doesn't revolve around the 573 00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:40,130 earth yeah 574 00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:41,870 I didn't know that I got that one wrong 575 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:44,480 didn't I got to ask you gotta go to ask 576 00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:46,190 you that the the topic of the moment 577 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:48,020 what do the skeptics think about global 578 00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:50,810 warming we generally we like to listen 579 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:52,520 to the best evidence available at the 580 00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,190 time the pity that the shame about the 581 00:25:59,470 --> 00:25:57,440 word skeptic is anybody can use it for 582 00:26:01,690 --> 00:25:59,480 anything people can say well we're 583 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:01,700 skeptical we don't think the global 584 00:26:06,430 --> 00:26:03,740 warming's reality is getting bad baggage 585 00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:06,440 it is it is good a skeptic is now 586 00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:08,900 becoming equal to deny as in Holocaust a 587 00:26:11,860 --> 00:26:10,580 night where it's unfortunately the word 588 00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:11,870 has sort of meant that for a long time 589 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:15,440 and try as we might we can't find a 590 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:17,810 better word which is encompasses what we 591 00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:19,970 really do and what we were that's what 592 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:22,550 science is about and I'm reading a book 593 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:25,010 on calc by Karl poppers major work at 594 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:26,930 the moment and the word skeptic pops up 595 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:27,890 all through it because that's the 596 00:26:31,030 --> 00:26:29,510 scientific method somebody comes up with 597 00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:31,040 an idea and you have to treat it 598 00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:32,960 skeptically until it's proven but 599 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:34,580 Richard there's there's no in-between 600 00:26:38,380 --> 00:26:36,890 and being skeptical about global warming 601 00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:38,390 because if you say something 602 00:26:42,790 --> 00:26:40,790 contradictory to it your religion 603 00:26:44,830 --> 00:26:42,800 inevitably get a gob for someone all 604 00:26:46,270 --> 00:26:44,840 hell yet our you do well you get them on 605 00:26:48,420 --> 00:26:46,280 both sides know where it comes to global 606 00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:48,430 warming I think that generally speaking 607 00:26:53,050 --> 00:26:51,590 we don't have a really firm stand on it 608 00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:53,060 because it's a little outside our area 609 00:26:58,780 --> 00:26:56,200 and my budgie agrees with me that 610 00:27:01,240 --> 00:26:58,790 generally speaking we tend to go with 611 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:01,250 the body of good scientific evidence 612 00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,020 which suggests yes to global warming is 613 00:27:07,870 --> 00:27:06,080 really happening disappointed parents 614 00:27:10,780 --> 00:27:07,880 are disappointed in you re you've lost 615 00:27:12,490 --> 00:27:10,790 10 points I think you see we can be said 616 00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:12,500 that we're skeptical of the global 617 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:14,600 warming so you how about that oh nice so 618 00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,340 you're going with the establishment view 619 00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:18,080 now and I thought skeptics re and anyway 620 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:21,260 let's move on from that the bit about 621 00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:23,030 the ghosts and the supernatural and the 622 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:24,470 water divining that's where you guys 623 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:26,690 really excel isn't it well we've had a 624 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:28,130 lot of experience that we've been at it 625 00:27:32,770 --> 00:27:30,410 since 1980 and it occurred to me the 626 00:27:36,010 --> 00:27:32,780 other day that you know the Australian 627 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:36,020 skeptics been doing skeptical things and 628 00:27:39,670 --> 00:27:37,730 me and saying these things since 1980 629 00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:39,680 and we're still on the right track 630 00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:41,870 because we haven't had to public out the 631 00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,030 apologize or give away all our money or 632 00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,120 make major drastic alterations to the 633 00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:50,000 way we think we're willing to it just 634 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:51,520 hasn't happened yet 635 00:27:57,270 --> 00:27:53,890 I saw your wonderful program about water 636 00:28:00,360 --> 00:27:57,280 diviner you went to a lot of trouble to 637 00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:00,370 to show every example so that you were 638 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:02,830 giving it a fair go and I think recently 639 00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:05,080 you had one on about ghosts and you went 640 00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:07,960 to a lot of places where ghosts are 641 00:28:11,850 --> 00:28:09,430 alleged to be and of course they were 642 00:28:15,420 --> 00:28:11,860 never there but if you ever come close 643 00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:15,430 to two auras defining a ghost never not 644 00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,950 not even close to being close I 645 00:28:22,830 --> 00:28:20,320 personally make a point of going on 646 00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:22,840 ghost tours well there goes to us for 647 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:24,400 fun there are ghost tours which claimed 648 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:26,890 to be serious and then there are people 649 00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:28,570 who are really scared and want you to 650 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:30,280 come along and check out things and I've 651 00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:31,510 been on all sorts of ghost 652 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:33,400 investigations like this yeah look I 653 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:35,530 think look I don't believe in ghosts 654 00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:36,910 personally but I think it'd be a good 655 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:39,160 place if we had ghosts because it makes 656 00:28:43,050 --> 00:28:41,410 life more exciting I mean it's it's 657 00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:43,060 pretty sort of I don't know it's pretty 658 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:44,350 sort of an exciting to think with the 659 00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:45,730 only things here it's not to think 660 00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:47,620 there's another dimension there I said I 661 00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,870 can't rule them out of course I don't 662 00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,520 know if they're really goes there or not 663 00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:53,440 but what I can say is all the 664 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:55,180 investigations that we've done and I've 665 00:28:59,070 --> 00:28:57,550 personally been on i'm not some um chair 666 00:29:01,950 --> 00:28:59,080 skeptic saying oh there's no such things 667 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:01,960 as ghosts there's yet to be any any good 668 00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:03,730 evidence at all that they're ghosts are 669 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:05,800 real now tomorrow i might be invited to 670 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:07,330 the most haunted house in Australia 671 00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:09,130 although many houses make that claim 672 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:10,990 yeah I don't have a conversation with a 673 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:12,370 ghost and then I'll change my mind 674 00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:13,810 excellent please give us a call if that 675 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:16,660 happens have what sort of what sort of 676 00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:17,890 things do people tell you with these 677 00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:20,020 haunted houses and and how do you do 678 00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:23,590 bunk them well we can't really debunk 679 00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:25,900 something we can't debunk stories and 680 00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:28,750 tales someone will say I was here in the 681 00:29:32,190 --> 00:29:29,980 ghost walk right through the house and 682 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:32,200 gave me a cup of tea and kept going well 683 00:29:36,030 --> 00:29:33,580 there's not much we can say about that 684 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:36,040 we can we can listen and that's about 685 00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:38,890 all we can do but in the case of a 100 686 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:40,660 place I visited where someone was very 687 00:29:46,020 --> 00:29:43,330 scared and I treated that very seriously 688 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:46,030 there were things like a picture frame 689 00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:47,770 would fall off the wall and they 690 00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:49,150 couldn't figure it out and you know they 691 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:51,070 put it down to ghostly activity and I 692 00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,010 discovered that the floorboard near the 693 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:55,840 war where the picture frame was was 694 00:29:59,250 --> 00:29:57,490 falling down was a bit loose and if you 695 00:30:02,910 --> 00:29:59,260 actually stood outside in another room 696 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:02,920 on the floorboard yeah and it feels like 697 00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:04,110 that um 698 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:06,809 but no sometimes we can't we can't I 699 00:30:11,630 --> 00:30:09,690 remember being a very young and I guess 700 00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:11,640 naive broadcast and we had uri geller 701 00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:13,950 coming to the studio and he did the key 702 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:16,590 bending in the spoon my eyes lit up like 703 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:18,390 a couple of sources god he was good and 704 00:30:21,890 --> 00:30:20,370 then about two years later James Randi 705 00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:21,900 the magician followed in his footsteps 706 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:24,059 and I was saying but but but but but but 707 00:30:27,470 --> 00:30:25,710 you know uri geller and he said oh come 708 00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:27,480 on give me the spoon give me the keys 709 00:30:30,919 --> 00:30:29,220 bump on Foreman he did it right in front 710 00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,929 of you said it's a trick mate yeah I 711 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:32,640 thought my god it is I've been sunk 712 00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:34,770 right Ian Richard one of your old 713 00:30:39,409 --> 00:30:37,260 favorites is religion you must have you 714 00:30:40,669 --> 00:30:39,419 read that the three blockbusting books 715 00:30:43,490 --> 00:30:40,679 that are out there at the moment I've 716 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:43,500 read I've read one of them mmm religion 717 00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:45,240 is the interesting topic because by and 718 00:30:52,430 --> 00:30:49,559 large officially we don't really get 719 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:52,440 into those muddy waters we only try to 720 00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:54,210 stick to things that we can actually 721 00:30:59,659 --> 00:30:56,460 prove one way or the other or at least 722 00:31:00,799 --> 00:30:59,669 claims that can be proven I hang at the 723 00:31:04,159 --> 00:31:00,809 moment there's a bit of a logic problem 724 00:31:06,980 --> 00:31:04,169 you should if if if something can't be 725 00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:06,990 proven right well you've got to say no 726 00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:08,580 it doesn't exist like like for example 727 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:10,830 and here's the classical if i said to 728 00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:12,570 you there's a coca-cola factory on the 729 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:15,299 other side of the moon yeah you can't 730 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:16,770 prove that is it that it isn't there 731 00:31:20,299 --> 00:31:18,570 that's right right so therefore you say 732 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:20,309 you it's up to you now to prove that 733 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:21,690 it's there and if I can't prove it's 734 00:31:24,860 --> 00:31:23,850 there it doesn't exist well if you can't 735 00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:24,870 prove it's there it means you can't 736 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:26,760 prove it there it might be there just 737 00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:28,530 means you can't prove it okay I'm with 738 00:31:32,150 --> 00:31:30,299 ghost lord I know some of you blokes 739 00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:32,160 were very busy down there when Mary 740 00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:34,140 Magdalene appeared on a fence down at 741 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:36,510 coogee and I think you had something to 742 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:38,490 say about the piece of toast with Jesus 743 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:41,130 on it and all the posts and things like 744 00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:43,410 that the Holy post and the Holy totally 745 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:45,360 exact nervous and lately one of our 746 00:31:48,919 --> 00:31:46,740 listeners wants to ask you a question to 747 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:48,929 you daily you could I just curious as to 748 00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:51,090 whether skeptics are generally atheists 749 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:54,299 or not it's we i shouldn't be they 750 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:55,650 shouldn't be what they shouldn't be 751 00:31:59,450 --> 00:31:57,720 strictly but we've never really taken a 752 00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,460 poll and it's not something we ask 753 00:32:02,750 --> 00:32:01,440 people if they want to come along to 754 00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:02,760 meetings or join us or chat to us 755 00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,440 generally speaking because generally all 756 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:07,200 all scientists should be skeptical no 757 00:32:12,140 --> 00:32:09,600 Richard absolutely yeah yeah is your 758 00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:12,150 society a fabulous experience thanks Lee 759 00:32:17,779 --> 00:32:15,480 is your society more of a fun thing than 760 00:32:19,460 --> 00:32:17,789 a than a serious thing both we actually 761 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:19,470 have two sides we have an enormous 762 00:32:24,019 --> 00:32:21,570 amount of fun you can't imagine all the 763 00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:24,029 tricks we get up to magic tricks of 764 00:32:28,249 --> 00:32:26,190 course spoon bending fooling people just 765 00:32:30,379 --> 00:32:28,259 for just for fun and we never take it 766 00:32:32,810 --> 00:32:30,389 too seriously but then yes there is the 767 00:32:35,479 --> 00:32:32,820 very serious side and that revolves arge 768 00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,489 Lea round people ripping people off I'll 769 00:32:39,889 --> 00:32:37,679 remove your your curse for a thousand 770 00:32:41,659 --> 00:32:39,899 dollars or if you book yourself up to my 771 00:32:43,489 --> 00:32:41,669 special machine which scientists don't 772 00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,499 know about and i'll charge you three 773 00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,179 hundred dollars i can remove your cancer 774 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:47,519 terrible things we actually awful people 775 00:32:51,019 --> 00:32:49,289 i must say i was very impressed by the 776 00:32:53,089 --> 00:32:51,029 way and i saw your video about the water 777 00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:53,099 diviners and i was very impressed with 778 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:55,320 the gentle way you helped those people 779 00:32:59,299 --> 00:32:57,090 and dealt with them who genuinely 780 00:33:00,799 --> 00:32:59,309 believe that they could divine water you 781 00:33:01,999 --> 00:33:00,809 prove that they couldn't but you were 782 00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:02,009 very nice to them you weren't you 783 00:33:05,749 --> 00:33:03,929 weren't nasty too well we realized that 784 00:33:07,099 --> 00:33:05,759 most people claiming paranormal stuff 785 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:07,109 and especially most people claiming 786 00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:09,690 psychic ability are actually quite 787 00:33:14,629 --> 00:33:12,179 sincere and they really do believe it 788 00:33:16,249 --> 00:33:14,639 they're not out to con anybody very 789 00:33:17,629 --> 00:33:16,259 small percentage of people we come 790 00:33:19,009 --> 00:33:17,639 across are actually the cons and the 791 00:33:20,330 --> 00:33:19,019 Sharks yeah I guess you don't listen to 792 00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:20,340 to your weekend late on Sunday nights 793 00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:22,169 too well I don't want to take too much 794 00:33:26,029 --> 00:33:23,849 about that okay oh good to talk to you 795 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:26,039 Richard for us thank you I'm gonna go in 796 00:33:29,749 --> 00:33:27,690 soon and the budgie still going in 797 00:33:31,489 --> 00:33:29,759 ecology he's helping interest I keep 798 00:33:34,879 --> 00:33:31,499 keep digging there's still enough oxygen 799 00:33:50,259 --> 00:33:34,889 haha thanks my Richard Saunders the hits 800 00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:53,029 thank you for listening to the skeptic 801 00:33:59,299 --> 00:33:56,609 zone so next week's show show number 90 802 00:34:02,119 --> 00:33:59,309 will be the first of our amazing meeting 803 00:34:04,989 --> 00:34:02,129 eight specials this one will be a little 804 00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,999 report on the scene what's happening 805 00:34:09,859 --> 00:34:07,440 hopefully we can bump into a few good 806 00:34:12,589 --> 00:34:09,869 people to talk to and I'll bring that to 807 00:34:16,849 --> 00:34:12,599 you direct from the south point casino 808 00:34:19,129 --> 00:34:16,859 in Las Vegas so until then this is 809 00:34:24,799 --> 00:34:19,139 Richard Saunders for this week signing 810 00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:24,809 off from Sydney Australia you've been 811 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:27,089 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 812 00:34:34,099 --> 00:34:31,649 website at wwc a petting zoo TV for 813 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,109 comments contacts and extra video 814 00:34:47,970 --> 00:34:36,450 reports